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How Should DTR TrueSkill Transition into Year Two?
69.0%
69.0%
23.2%
23.2%
7.8%
7.8%

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Yin
Yin

311 Credits 336 Posts
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Destiny Year Two is just around the corner, and we're interested in expanding our TrueSkill's depth to give more bragging rights to the elite players who have mastered our existing TrueSkill system. We have reached a point where the number of players with a 50 has become "diluted" to an extent, so want to provide an opportunity for you to go above and beyond to show off your skills in the Crucible.

We have two potential ideas of expanding this feature but we (the staff) are at an impasse as to which action to take; so we're asking you, the members of this community who use our website to enhance their experiences, what you would prefer to see happen to TrueSkill as the Taken King approaches.
_____

Expand TrueSkill by increasing the level cap beyond 50.
If this option is selected, TrueSkill will be expanded beyond the existing limit of 50. Players will be able to level into the 50s and 60s with the release of the Taken King.

Implement multiple grades of 50, having new images showcase your extra effort.
If this option is selected, TrueSkill will remain bounded at 50 but players who put in extra effort will receive special 50 images. If you were a member of HaloTracker, we have used this system in the past.

Players at 50 have the option to prestige to a new rank set.
If this option is selected, players at TrueSkill 50 will be able to "prestige" their TrueSkill back to one, unlocking a new set of rank images that are more difficult than the original.
xorth
xorth

644 Credits 527 Posts
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Ello, another staff member here. We have differing opinions, and seeking your opinions.

I like Grades. Because you can get your 50, show it off, people know you earned a 50, and be done with it. If you're a grinder at heart, and you're really good, you can keep going if you want and achieve amazing things. Raising it to a 70 just makes it more of a grind and each rank means less.

that's my take.
The Traveler
The Traveler

30 Credits 198 Posts
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This post was promoted to the homepage as news! Congratulations. Reputation points were given to OP for their great post.
Yin
Yin

311 Credits 336 Posts
2 Credit(s) Received
My preference lies with expanding beyond 50. My philosophy is that our top players will not be satisfied with the status associated with simply owning a 50 and its subsequent grades. They will want a clear indication of their status for their hard work, despite the increased effort required to attain it.

In my opinion, increasing the level cap is easier to grasp as an overall system, and a much simpler one for us to continue expanding. Since Bungie is intent on making Destiny a ten year experience, this method can be easily appended to in the future, without worry of a system cluttered with grades of a 50.
DELETED
DELETED

0 Credits 229 Posts
Darkened Night said:My preference lies with expanding beyond 50. My philosophy is that our top players will not be satisfied with the status associated with simply owning a 50 and its subsequent grades. They will want a clear indication of their status for their hard work, despite the increased effort required to attain it.


^^^^^^ this
PerfectDrug1
PerfectDrug1

0 Credits 1 Posts
xorth said:Ello, another staff member here. We have differing opinions, and seeking your opinions.

I like Grades. Because you can get your 50, show it off, people know you earned a 50, and be done with it. If you're a grinder at heart, and you're really good, you can keep going if you want and achieve amazing things. Raising it to a 70 just makes it more of a grind and each rank means less.

that's my take.


Was going to vote for lvl increase but your POV proves a very valid point so deffinently voting different grades/ or image thingys lol
Incubad
Incubad

45 Credits 9 Posts
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I agree with Xorth.
If this is similar to what was done with Reach, a player can be satisfied with a 50, then elite players will be able to show off their different grades of 50. Then within each grade they will be differentiated with a visible "progress" bar.


Example from Halotracker
onlymrnitti
onlymrnitti

10 Credits 1 Posts
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I feel like this is a non-issue, but I think that upping the level just increases the grind exponentially. If there has to be a change, then I'd prefer the 50 cap stays and we just introduce degrees of skill within there; much like how people are divided into Onyx, Gold, Silver, etc.

This whole thing is a complete non-issue; so few people actually have 50s, or multiples, that increasing the cap, or changing anything, just devalues all the work put in so far.

It takes, with a 100% win rate, ~500 wins to reach 50. Say every match is 7 minutes, and the time inbetween games being about two minutes in total, that's 75 hours alone to get 50; I can't imagine how much more it would be if you increased the level cap yet didn't increase the % received per game.

tl;dr: Both changes are stupid, and pointless. Just keep things as is.
MAYHEMreflex
MAYHEMreflex

5 Credits 1 Posts
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Why not do like Call of Duty? Make Prestige's or something like that. Let the player choose if that want to prestige it. That will reward the true grinders and let others be satisfied with reaching 50
xorth
xorth

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MAYHEMreflex said:Why not do like Call of Duty? Make Prestige's or something like that. Let the player choose if that want to prestige it. That will reward the true grinders and let others be satisfied with reaching 50


I like this too
Yin
Yin

311 Credits 336 Posts
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MAYHEMreflex said:Why not do like Call of Duty? Make Prestige's or something like that. Let the player choose if that want to prestige it. That will reward the true grinders and let others be satisfied with reaching 50


This was actually my first thought, and one that I considered as I developed the original TrueSkill system I even had some preliminary ranks. Xorth decided against it and it was shelved. We might have to reconsider this idea.

Edit:
Discussing it further between Xorth, we've added this option to see how much attention it garners.
Dirty is Ninja
Dirty is Ninja

0 Credits 1 Posts
I would keep the current system or vote for a raise to 100. Prestige is non sense with 200 hours of PvP under my belt and a decent player I am only half way to 50!
RefIip
RefIip

10 Credits 19 Posts
This is just my opinion -
Gaining a 50 takes a TON of time. It is rewarding and it furthers the grind yes, however I think there should be separate "50" pictures not based solely on wins/loses but by stats while getting to that 50 (or if you continue to play on the 50). For example say you got to 50 with a 2+ k/d in a certain playlist, you will be presented with a different picture than someone who had a 1+ k/d in that certain playlist, or your main gun you used was a sniper and you got the 50 in that playlist.. you get a different picture with a 50. Now what if someone had a 2 k/d and did it with a sniper, you will have a drop down to show whichever "50" logo you would like at anytime, and players can see what logo's you have received in your dropdown box, but cannot change the one you present.

Also to further the progression i think use different grades of 50s to show the extra work someone has put into their 50 in each playlist.
Wyoming Pixel
Wyoming Pixel

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Can I have a NONE OF THE ABOVE option since I suck at PvP and will never see a 50? If it weren't for a Thorn bounty I would never play crucible.
B
B

60 Credits 45 Posts
Why can't we have both grades and an increased level cap? If you really want to differentiate the good players from the great you want to make it hard to reach the top level. What I'm thinking is something like this:

The level cap in increased to 55, but each level after 50 has 3 grades; with Level 55 Grade 3 comprising of only the top players. This makes it difficult for players to obtain the top rank which is exactly what you want in a ranking system. Just increasing the level cap by 5 or 10, or adding grades would filter out the good from great a bit, but adding both would filter the skills of players way better-.

Other games use a system similar to this. Take League of Legends for example. Each ranked tier (Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc.) has 5 divisions which are essentially grades. Once you progress through all 5 grades you rank up to a new tier.



With over 1.5 million ranked players in North America, the top 2 ranks consist of less than 1000 players combined






Now I'm not saying to copy League of Legends at all, but if you really want to show who the best players are, both grades and extra levels need to be added. Although this seems like the grind would be terrible, I doubt that would become much of an issue.
Yin
Yin

311 Credits 336 Posts
With the new option, my opinion shifts back to resetting your TrueSkill if you feel you can take the challenge. This offers a best-of-both scenario, where players not fond of leveling may keep their TrueSkill at 50, while those who play an excessive amount of matches might be up to the challenge.
Yin
Yin

311 Credits 336 Posts
B said:Why can't we have both grades and an increased level cap? If you really want to differentiate the good players from the great you want to make it hard to reach the top level. What I'm thinking is something like this:

The level cap in increased to 55, but each level after 50 has 3 grades; with Level 55 Grade 3 comprising of only the top players. This makes it difficult for players to obtain the top rank which is exactly what you want in a ranking system. Just increasing the level cap by 5 or 10, or adding grades would filter out the good from great a bit, but adding both would filter the skills of players way better-.

Other games use a system similar to this. Take League of Legends for example. Each ranked tier (Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc.) has 5 divisions which are essentially grades. Once you progress through all 5 grades you rank up to a new tier.


The big difference between DestinyTracker and League of Legends is the lack of matchmaking based on skill. In League, you're consistently matching players in your tier or division. It makes sense to make tiers out of this, because you can normalize how much someone can increase or decrease in skill depending on your opposition's placement in relation to your own. We don't have the luxury of information to facilitate the level of detail that it requires to pull off.
INCH
INCH

5 Credits 8 Posts
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Darkened Night said:With the new option, my opinion shifts back to resetting your TrueSkill if you feel you can take the challenge. This offers a best-of-both scenario, where players not fond of leveling may keep their TrueSkill at 50, while those who play an excessive amount of matches might be up to the challenge.


The 1-50 skill rank holds some historical importance. Bungie and HALO have ingrained the meaning of a 50 in players minds for more than a decade. The system introduced by HaloTracker for HALO: Reach is therefore the best option for me. A grade of 50 is the best symbolic way to show mastery. The 50 grade ranks for HALO: Reach were a lot more badass and cool than having a `71` or a `100` to designate skill. Prestige is a COD mechanic, with all due respect, I find that mechanic out of place for a Bungie game.
B
B

60 Credits 45 Posts
Darkened Night said:
The big difference between DestinyTracker and League of Legends is the lack of matchmaking based on skill. In League, you're consistently matching players in your tier or division. It makes sense to make tiers out of this, because you can normalize how much someone can increase or decrease in skill depending on your opposition's placement in relation to your own. We don't have the luxury of information to facilitate the level of detail that it requires to pull off.


I am purely using League as an example of another game that uses this general idea of a ranking system. Yes the matchmaking systems are entirely different in Destiny and League, but that's not what I am trying to say. I believe that if you add new ranks and grades to those new ranks that the true skill will more accurately represent who the good players are and who the best players are. Even on HaloTracker when you added the 6th grade for rank 50, lots of people obtained that fairly easily. The way I see it, adding several ranks that each have their own grades will show us who the very best players are.
DeCrYpT3R
DeCrYpT3R

0 Credits 1 Posts
I'm at a vote for 50 max but prestige it